A client of mine had a website designed, the images which were used were believed to be 100% legal. Last summer 2006 my client received a letter from Getty images demanding over £1500 pounds plus VAT for one thumb size image.
Obviously my client was shocked by this unexpected demand from Getty images. To cut a long story short, the webmaster had done everything right, he got permission from a hotel to use their images. Unknowingly the people who design the hotel's website took an image off Getty, how on earth then was my client meant to know. Of course the image was taken down immediately and I contacted Getty Images. They were not in the slightest bit sympathetic to my clients situation, and demanded payment even though the image was only on the site for a few weeks on an internal page.
I have been reading around and found some useful information, I am by no means a lawyer or have any legal training, but by the looks of it there are 1000's of people in the same boat.
Also from the same forum:
Found this on www.sitepoint.com/forums/
The UK Copyright, Patents and Designs Act 1988 states the following
Section 98.—(1) If in proceedings for infringement of copyright in respect of which a licence is available as of right under section 144 (powers exercisable in consequence of report of Monopolies and Mergers Commission) the defendant undertakes to take a licence on such terms as may be agreed or, in default of agreement, settled by the Copyright Tribunal under that section—
(a) no injunction shall be granted against him,
(b) no order for delivery up shall be made under section 99, and
(c) the amount recoverable against him by way of damages or on an account of profits shall not exceed double the amount which would have been payable by him as licensee if such a licence on those terms had been granted before the earliest infringement.
Advice to all...
If you live in the UK and have received a letter/email/telephone call from Getty asking for payment for copyright infringement:
DO:
1. Complain to Trading Standards immediately stating that you have received a very threatening demand for money and believe it to be an illegal scam. If you are any doubt that this is a scam, then take my word, IT IS!
2. If the invoice is charging VAT and has a) A US address and/or b) No VAT number, then report them to UK Customs and Excise. This is highly illegal.
3. Remove your site from the Waybackmachine. Both Getty and Picsout use this to get information. Inform the Waybackmachine that you have removed your site and tell them why - they frown on companies like Getty abusing their free resource.
4. Ignore all posts from photographers on this forum. They have no advice to offer you.
DONT:
1. Contact Getty in any way. Ignore all correspondence. If you have already spoken to them, and have not done so already, dispute the invoice and deny all responsibility.
2. Under no circumstances pay them any money. If you have already paid them, report them to the trading standards and write to them stating that if they don't refund your money you will report them to the police.
3. Speak to a solicitor. In my experience (like most others on this forum) is that advice is bad, conflicting and generally designed to maximise their own income rather than resolve your issue.
In the [very] unlikely event that Getty do take you to court - fight them! Legally, they do not have a leg to stand on!
I am not sure what is true and what is not but one thing is for sure it sounds like Getty's business model is not to make money from selling images but instead to make money from Sueing unsuspecting business owners. Ah the American way you gotta love it!!!
If I was a photographer I would be careful about using such a company. I can totally understand why such a law exists to protect your work, but I think Getty have gone a step to far. It's the small guys like me who used to buy of a company like Getty.
One last bit of advice if you have have been in contact with Getty then ask the for the copyright number for the image, the rates on their website for the period of time in connection and the full contact details for the photographer.
If you want this advice to be found by other people then either bookmark this page or link to it.
I now only use www.photospin.com and www.sxc.hu now for all my images.
Friday, 29 June 2007
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45 comments:
Thanks for creating & putting so much positivity in the way of ignoring the stupidity of mass capitalism trying to recreate itself.Keep up the resistance ,we all have to survive in the end don t we ? Be assured they & they know who they are ,are pillocks xxxx
Yes I agree. I had a very threatening letter from Getty Images saying I had infringed on copyright of one image on my website. The image had no history to it. I was not using the image for any financial gain and apparently thats what Getty would have to prove if they did take you to court.
My solicitor told me that under no circumstances was I to pay any money or respond to them. He said to ignore the letters and only contact him if the threats mentioned the word court!!!
If your bill was like mine just over £1500 then its daylight robbery especially as Getty say that after you've paid the fine you're still not entitled to use the image! Exactly what are you paying for?
The best advice did come from my solicitor it was free advice and anyone out there who is worried about these letters don't be. Ignore them as Getty won't take you to court unless its viable and as already mentioned they have to prove that you have used that image for financial gains i.e. selling it on!
Take all unsuspecting images off your website immediately and make sure that you always keep receipts of images and who you bought the rights from.
As for Getty they can GETTY LOST!!
Is it possible that the web site designer is in on this scam.
Who did you use, we usd ISS.
I don't think so, but you never know!!! I don't think Getty as much as they have disagree at how they approached attacking un aware businesses owners would ever try that stunt like that.
I am from the US & I received one of these letters. It makes you not want to have a website. Who can you trust unless you do it yourself and I don't know how. The guy I purchased my template site from said he believes Getty Images collected pictures from free sites & had them copyrighted. Do you think this is a possibility? Have they ever taken anyone to court? They want over $2000 from me.
Threaten Gettyimages back. They have no permission from the people or the structures that you see in the images. The Gettyimages and the photographers are making money not the people in the pictures. Threaten Getty that the people who have been abused will join in a class action lawsuit against Getty.
Has anyone used Lime One Solicitors yet? I have just received a call today from Moreton Smith Debt Collectors and am tempted to let Lime One deal with the problem. Any feedback would be appreciated. Getty claim that I owe them over £8000! They will accept £5500!!! Lime One claim to have successfully dealt with 150 cases. Is it true?
hi,
i am in the same position as the previous poster.
i have been reading another forum, but all posts seem to have stopped suddenly earlier last year - up until that point the thread was going strong???? http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/printthread.php?t=390902&page=4&pp=25
i was wondering if any of the older posts could update us on their current situation.
many thanks
I have also received these letters and chose to ignore them. I am now receiving emails and phone calls from a debt collector but so far have managed to ignore them also!!
for germans who are scammed by getty:
http://www.getty-images-abmahnung.info/
are planning a class action lawsuit against getty.
fight those gettygangsters!
see here
http://www.bloggingbuyouts.com/2008/03/19/those-suing-getty-images-may-need-to-be-thankful-a-buyout-came-a/1#c11615012
So, Getty Images, whose share price has fallen through the floor, making lots of shareholders very unhappy decides that it needs to boost it's revenues.
Answer: Send out invoices to as many people as possible as soon as possible and try and scare people into sending them money.
Very novel approach - lets hope that the share price goes down even more.
I'm in Canada, and I got a letter from Getty with a $4,000 bill last September. In 2001, an employer of mine gave me these images to use in an internal presentation. I posted this presentation on my website to showcase it in my portfolio. Well I guess Getty's robocops found it and apparently these images weren't licenced. The kicker is, this employer laid me off, then went bankrupt long ago.
Even though I removed them, I received one more letter from them in January but I keep seeing these posts saying to "Ignore Getty" because they didn''t send any type of warning. I thought they gave up but now they have hired a collection agency who sent me a copy of the letter and $4000 invoice. Now this dude is calling me.
Should I keep ignoring them or should I get a few hundred bucks together and contact a lawyer? As far as I'm concerned, I'm innocent because I was not aware that these were unlicenced, I was just doing my job.
They send debt collectors after me as well, I just ignored them and said see you in court, not heard anything for 12 months. I am in the UK so don't know if that makes a difference.
Just found this page and feel very reassured by all the comments.
I had already replied to Getty stating that i was unaware of any license on the images. My solicitor has told me not to pay them a penny and if it comes to it to go to small claims court and they would loose miserably.
I am now being called regularly by a premium rate number regularly but just ignore them. Im sure they will get bored before they get any money from me.
See you in court Getty!
I've just got a Getty demand for £6500 for a third party designed site - just wanted to say thanks for all the postings - I thought I was on my own! Have spoken to a solicitor but having little feedback as what action to take or not to take. I was going to contact Getty to 'negotiate' but doesn't sound like a good idea now after reading comments. I have taken the website off however until we know what to do - like previous comments, it would be good to get update from older cases.
I'm in UK, I received a letter from Getty demanding £1,210 just 3 days ago, I immediately contacted Getty explaining the mistake since the image was supplied to me by a friend who claimed it was his. They ignored my plea and demanded I make payment.
I have since sought legal advice and been told by a solicitor that I can not be held responsible for use of the image as the it was 'Accidental Use' ie I was not informed of the true legal copyright and its applied terms and conditions.
Also by UK law a person can not be made accountable to any Terms and Conditions that they have not agreed to, so T&C for RM images Getty manage do not apply if you did not sign up to their site and agree to them them.
I was informed to write a letter (write not email) to inform that by removing the image immediately from the website is sufficient enough and not to be contacted again for any demand for money.
If Getty persue the demand I was told to take it to Small Claims Court where it would fail to win due to my actions of immediately trying to rectify the issue sensibly and responsibly.
Obviously their is a limit to how much the demand is for for small claims so that will not be helpful to those who are being demanded to pay up a larger sum.
Hope this info is of use to other.
Fight it... You have nothing to lose IMO.
I have just had one of these for £1210 (£1000 plus Irish VAT at 21%) No VAT number... highly illegal! I find it odd looking at the posts in other forums that they are getting away with this and there has not been more action from both HMRC and Trading Standards. Perhaps we should start writing to newspapers or TV suggesting that they give the story some coverage too!!!
It appears getty is in this for the long haul. We need to follow the advice of Oscar Michelen at http://extortionletterinfo.com/
Listen to the 2 MP3 files of the discussion he has and his advice to us all. We need to come together and push their stock prices into the basement with public discussions about their tactics and what they are trying to do to us all. Lets make this our Cause for 2008 and slaughter the giant HOG as Oscar talks about in his discussion. Lets come together on this and stop the insanity.
Getty Images - We too had a demand in Guernsey GBG for almost £1000 showing VAT in Ireland & payment to a USA bank - For a thumbnail size image of 2 men on a sofa that was used by our US web master on a tech web site. - John
Thanks for all your comments, I feel much better now!!!! I thought it was a scam but to be safe I have sought legal advice. I then googled "getty images scam" and was amazed at how widespread this is and how long it has been going on. I'm in Perth Western Australia and run a very small business that cannot afford to pay the demand especially for two images that cannot be clearly seen on the site let alone earn me any money!!!
Just had a call from UK debt-collectors Moreton Smith today. The thing is, I'm not in the UK. They don't have any jurisdiction where I live. They don't even have bailiff powers in their own country.
The guy at the other end of the phone was mumbling and couldn't even get my name right. I gave up trying to explain that I hadn't received an invoice, and if I had, it should be considered contested. In the end I simply hung up on him.
The tiny thumbnail image in question came as part of a free Joomla template and had no idea at the time it was copyrighted by Greedy Images. As soon as I knew it was, the image was removed.
I'm not paying Greedy Images a cent of their >€2000 bill for this pathetic thumbnail, although when initially approached I would have been perfectly happy to full-size license the image at its normal cost, even though I did not knowingly violate their copyright and even though I work for a small, not-for-profit community organisation.
They don't have a leg to stand on and they know it. If they have any sense, they'll leave well enough alone. They can go to hell, and take Picscout and Moreton Smith with them.
Hi, Some very useful information here. I also had a letter from getty demanding £900. My tiny image came from google with no indication of who it belonged to or who it was owned by. Not being aware of any of the issues around this, I spoke to the legal department and they 'to my surprise' negotiated a deal and reduced it to £630...I paid! Having now read the posts on this site, I am going to report to trading standards and write to the police fraud department. I agree to copyrights and would always ask permission to use any images from the internet and pay but owner information has to be made available. What stops someone using my own images, submitting to getty and getty finding the images on my site and sue me??!! Thanks again folks, will let you know how this pans out.
Great blog!
I am even being charged $1,2000 AUD for a banner on my site that someone else supplied to me!
We emailed them and got an email back saying they were willing to negotiate a price.
I do believe they are using bully tactics to get large sums of money from little people and through fear these people pay.
For a great alternative to buy your images from only $1, go to istockphoto [singular]. You can email the copyright owner direct as well. I buy all my images and graphics from there.
I received a second letter from Getty yesterday, demanding €4,500. I am not sure what to do. I see that most of the people posting here are from the UK and the UK law on copyright is slightly different than Irish. Does anyone have experience with the Irish copyright law, has anyone been taken to court in Ireland over this etc? Any help would be appreciated.
Just to mention, I can not afford to pay the above amount..
I also received a letter from gettyimages stating that I am using one of their images and should take it down and pay $1000. And if I pay within 14 days, they will give me $100 discount. I got that image from google image search in 2005, and I do not see any copyrighted watermark on that image. Is it possible that the image was later added to the gettyimages and now they are trying to exhort money? Although I have taken the image out from my website, I am really looking for suggestions to deal with this situation. Mine is a demo website, and I don't have $1000 (or $900) to give it to them for a single photo.
Minor correction for the above post - the image was downloaded in 2003, and accordingly to the US Copyright law, the civil suit needs to be filed within 3 years (at least that is how I am reading it).
We are finding out more and more information about Getty that is only strengthening our legal position. Getty is now being sued by its photographers for selling their photos for $2.00 per image yet they continue to seek $1,300 per image from my clients. Wikipedia now has posted a memo showing that Getty knows it cannot get these "multiplier damages" yet it continues to seek these very damages in a letter to my clients. Getty has consistently shifted and changed its position in resposne to our legal position and we contineu to show flaws intheir approach. This last issue with the memo shows incredible hubris on Getty's part. With one hand they send a letter to us telling us they are entitled to get multiplier damages and with th eother hand they send amemo ot that states they cannot get multiplier damaegs wiothout great difficulty. Come visit us at extortionletterinfo.com to see the latest posts on this issue
Thanks for info. Great blog you have here.
I received a letter back in Jan/Feb 09 saying I owed them close to £1000 for using their picture on my website - a site I paid a professional web company to design and host for me. I don't have the sort of money to pay 1K, its more a hobby business that makes a few quid a month - I wish I hadn't bothered with it now.
No-one I speak to wants to know, Trading Standards weren't interested at all, Citizens Advice couldn't help, I tried to get a free half hour of legal advice from several law firms but as soon as they find out its civil they don't offer free advice. They want £250+ per hour. Have considered Lime One as they send a letter out but even that is close to £200 which is a fortune to me.
Not sure what to do, Getty dismissed the only contact I have had with them which was an email saying I contested the invoice as I employed a third party to design/host the site saying I was still liable. Interestingly I am in the UK and they are applying Irish VAT??
I received a second letter from Getty last week (April 09) and if I ignore that I guess the next step is that they send the debt collectors after me. Not looking forward to that - does it mess up your credit history etc? Do they send bayliffs to the house?
Am half tempted to get a loan to pay up as the worry is making me sick.
Just a quick message about our situation to try and put people at ease.
I'm a freelance web designer and my main client had a letter from Getty demanding £1500 for the unauthorised use of two of their images on a web site I'd created a couple of years previously.
I can't rememember where the images came from - most likely Google image search (lesson learnt there).
First action - I took the images off the site straight away and checked all my other sites to ensure that any images with unverifiable histories were also removed. I replaced them with properly licensed images from Stockxpert.com, which are a fraction of the price of Getty (a quid for a web quality photo, for example).
After discussing the matter with my client and searching the Internet to see what others' experiences were, we decided to do nothing. No explanations, no pleading, no acknowledgement, no replies whatsoever.
This was a few months ago and we've not heard back from Getty.
We did consider using Lime One solicitors, who I spoke to over the phone, but weighing up the pros and cons, doing nothing was a reasonable course of action (not to mention free).
We share others' opinion that Getty are trying to intimidate people into a quick knee-jerk payment and are not interested in pursuing the matter to court, which would soak up any money they may make from the court case (I understand that the costs they can get in a small claim are limited and nowhere near what they'd have to pay their legal team). I'd advise others to do the same.
Once you reply to them I think they may employ more effort to get money out of you. In that situation, paying £150 to Lime One to write a legal letter on your behalf might be worthwhile for your peace of mind and seems to have been succesful in putting Getty off their pursuit.
There's certainly no need to panic. Getty want to scare money out of people for the least amount of effort on their part. If it looks like you'll make them work for it, they'll leave you alone and go for easier targets instead.
I used a free template from themesbase.com and used the images with that, then get a letter from getty demanding £1000 - the site was for a school...they didn't care when i called them...
Hi there, found this blog really useful. I am being chased by Getty Images for a third party designed website. I note the comments about Trading Standards so will definitely try this tactic. Have spoken with my lawyers and they said they have come across Getty but the news isn't good as Getty will pursue the death out of you till they get their dosh. They want £3000 from me which I can't afford to give them even though my insurers who are sympathetic and will pay it. I would still have to pay the excess. Have written to them today. Interesting to see what they will say.
Hi All,
For anyone getting letters in the Republic of Ireland, I have found this in the Irish Statute Books.
Copyright & Related Rights Acts 2000
Chapter 9
Section 128
Paragraph 2
(2) Without prejudice to any other remedy, where, in an action for infringement of the copyright in a work, it is shown that at the time of the infringement the defendant did not know and had no reason to believe that copyright subsisted in the work to which the action relates, the plaintiff is not entitled to damages against the defendant."
Looks like, ignore Getty and let them take it to the doorsteps of the Courthouse, then plant this one on them.
I am not a solicitor/lawyer but I do know that the Irish Court system is slow, and cumbersome. It will be good to see Getty going through the works and then meet up with one of the Judges, currently been snowed under by repossession orders and finance company claims against heavily indebted individuals who can barely afford to put a dinner on their family table, let alone indulge the greediness of a Megaprofit Company. After all, Getty can claim damages all they want, but if you can't pay, you can't pay and the Judge will see that and make an appropriate decision based on your financial position and the fact that you "did not know and had no reason to believe that copyright subsisted in the work to which the action relates". Also, it is a known fact that they will loose at least 50% of their claim in legal fees, were they to pursue it through the courts and all for little or no reward in the end.
These Getty Images guys have been chasing us for a year; we made the mistake of responding to the letters refuting their claims etc & while their responses took a while to come, they just ignored what we said and continued on with their rant. They have now employed MoretonSmith to institute legal proceedings... AAagghHHh.... So looks like the "ignore" advice (that I didn't listen to) is correct. Am now going to ignore them completely now (probably too late), return their correspondence as "no longer at this address" & wait to see what happens.. I will do jail for non-payment of the debt before I'll give these guys anything.... It really needs to be covered in the National Newspapers (or PrimeTime) to generate some bad press about Getty and get them off e'bodys back... Now - there's an idea I hadn't thought of before... Am off to see if I can get a friendly introduction to somebody in RTE (or if anybody out there knows somebody, can you do likewise..)... It's like the Nigerian scams from Lagos years ago all over again....
Thank you so much for this blog. I have had a letter sent, and I'm sure I had the image as part of a paid web design template set from a company in India.
I am hoping that, as I did not know this was in copyright infringement, and because I have subsequently removed the image, and because I have not responded, I will be OK.
However, I will use some words in this post that may help with the search engine ranking results: I'm guessing that people will be looking for words like Getty Images legal letter, copyright infringement, demand for payment, scam, but if anyone else can think of others, feel free to add them here - at the very least, I'd like to help sully the name of Getty Images a bit more.
All those people writing comments here thinking because they find something on Google with no copyright notice, it is fair game to use as you wish.
No it is not. You did not create it, so don't steal it like you would not steal a tv or car.
If you want to use someone's product of work and effort you can bl**dy well pay or at least ask them. The fact you did not bother to check it out is no excuse.
Pay the money and accept you did wrong.
p.s. all images Getty own require a lenghty process of submission and proof of ownership by the photographer. If the photographer was lying, he or she could be sued.
"All those people writing comments here thinking because they find something on Google with no copyright notice, it is fair game to use as you wish.
No it is not. You did not create it, so don't steal it like you would not steal a tv or car.
If you want to use someone's product of work and effort you can bl**dy well pay or at least ask them. The fact you did not bother to check it out is no excuse.
Pay the money and accept you did wrong.
p.s. all images Getty own require a lenghty process of submission and proof of ownership by the photographer. If the photographer was lying, he or she could be sued."
I don't think anyone would disagree about paying for the photos, what the massive issue is how Getty is dealing with it. When a hotel offers you a photo of their own hotel from their own site to then find out Getty say they own it, how could you ever know? Then the amount they want for it without any negotiation is hat is wrong. The only thing the resort to is threats.
So saying people are stealing photos is totally incorrect.
Please can you advise people by suggesting when a customer has supplies photos they can be checked to see who owns them?
I too have received one of these demand letters this month for a thumbs size image for £972.00 (inc. Irish VAT). Getty says they are based in Irland so how come they put Camden UK address? Not even a company registration number on the letterhead. I was going to write to them but I'm not gonna waste my stamp money!
Here is an excellent website with resources about getty images scam.
Alan said:
I've just sent a long letter and copies of the gettyimages demand letters to Trading Standards in the borders of Scotland. I had one 72 dpi very small image of a road sign on a dusty corner of my website. Getty mafia are after me like others for £972 - which seems like their £1k per pic policy. The photographer was sympathetic and knows he won't see probably any of the £972 (fee)from gettyimages, but said he caouldn't afford to fall out with getty and suggested I ignore them.
I haven't given up the struggle yet - this is a scam and intimidation. Can we not work together to stop this?
Hi all,
Am close to paying up the £972 as my nerves are not made of steel.
Photographer's blogs are full of the usual rumours that that Removal firm sued by Getty had to pay around £24.000 in legal fees.
Does anyone know why that removal firm have not issued a statement of any kind? Why do they keep schtumm?
Also, it would be good to hear from anyone whose "case" has been dropped - or do we not have ANY positive news?
Thanks for support + infos so far!
To be honest I would just ignore them and wait to see if they do take you to court.
The best we can hope for is we can damage Getty Images's Reputation by their hard handed approach.
I contacted Trading Standards but they didn't seem all that interested. In any case call the HMRC VAT fraud hotline at 0800 595 000 and report that Getty are charging Irish VAT on a UK invoice. They are very interested in cases like this!
If Getty contact you again, just say again that you used the image unwittingly and ask how they calculate their claim (- in the end they'd have to proof how long you have been using the image to justify the amount).
Keep us posted on progress pls!
Good luck!
Just to keep you updated .... I received an email off Getty today. They have now revised their extortionate demand, and now tell me they will accept £729. So, it's gone from £972, to £842, to £729! I may just wait until it's down to £15, which is the price the image is advertised at on their website. Onwards ....
Hi Ali, good on you, I have been approached again by them for another website, I have also contacted Watchdog this time to see if we can get them interested.
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